Hellcat vs. 8.4L V10

"Jcarr" (jcarr) 07/23/2014 at 20:49 • Filed to: Hellcat, Viper

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Anyone know how their dimensions compare? Would a Hellcat fit in the Viper's engine bay?

Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire > Jcarr 07/23/2014 at 20:53

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No. And stop thinking about it, it's bad for your health.

Drakkon- Most Glorious and Upright Person of Genius > Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire 07/23/2014 at 21:00

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I can't imagine why not. Besides that, this engine really begs the question why the Viper needs a V10, besides tradition.

Nick, Drives a Cobalt LT > Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire 07/23/2014 at 21:01

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Chuck 2(O=[][]=O)2 > Jcarr 07/23/2014 at 21:03

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I was just talking to someone on here about this. The HEMI's dimensions would not allow the engine to be in the Viper. It wouldn't be able to sit low enough.

JGrabowMSt > Jcarr 07/23/2014 at 21:05

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The 8.4L V10 block is a full 36" front to back. Somewhere I actually do have a diagram of the measurements, I can dig around and see if I can find it.

In theory, the Hellcat would fit, but you'd have to re-work the motor mounts (not all that difficult), and account for a little extra plumbing for the radiator and other bits.

The added height of the supercharger will require a bulge, not sure how much though. The issue to overcome however will be that the supercharger intake is offset towards the drivers side at roughly a 45* angle, while the V10 has a pair of throttle bodies that stick straight forward. You'll need to come up with a new intake that will fit onto it and in the space under the hood. The trans will be tough to attach, but with a custom bell housing and input shaft setup, it's theoretically possible. The 6spd manual trans is the same one between both, but that's not special news, because the Challenger manual trans has always been the TR6060 that the Viper uses.

Would I personally do the swap? No, the transmission bits will be one colossal mess, and likely weaken it. Only way to avoid that would be to pull an F Body move, and stuff the motor into the dash space, which would really screw up your weight balance, and make corners a permanent death trap (not that the Viper isn't already, but it'll actually manage to probably be worse).

Hellcat all of the things! (Actually, don't).

JGrabowMSt > Chuck 2(O=[][]=O)2 07/23/2014 at 21:06

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Simply haven't tried hard enough. Custom oil pan can solve that issue.

Jcarr > Drakkon- Most Glorious and Upright Person of Genius 07/23/2014 at 21:06

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Well the obvious answer is to graft 2 more cylinders onto the Hellcat, like Chrysler did with the 360 to make the original 488 V10.

Boom. Hellcat V10.

Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire > Drakkon- Most Glorious and Upright Person of Genius 07/23/2014 at 21:27

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Just supercharge the V10 if you thin it needs more power.

Mike > Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire 07/23/2014 at 21:36

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Seriously, why don't they use a blown V10? Or even tune that damn 8.4L up to the output it should be capable of. 650hp is downright anemic for a modern engine of that size.

The Viper is all about utterly ridiculous, rip-your-face-off power, and they're sort of failing in that regard.

Drakkon- Most Glorious and Upright Person of Genius > Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire 07/23/2014 at 21:37

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Not a poor idea, but use the V8 and improve the center of gravity.

samssun > JGrabowMSt 07/23/2014 at 21:43

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Why would it screw up the weight balance? If the Viper is right at 50/50, and you shove the engine a few inches rearward, you're talking maybe 45/55 at most? For a high torque, high power, RWD car that should be a good thing...

Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire > Drakkon- Most Glorious and Upright Person of Genius 07/23/2014 at 21:45

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That wouldn't improve the CG.

Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire > Mike 07/23/2014 at 21:51

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650 N/A horsepower isn't anemic. There are 3 production N/A street motors that make more the Ferrari F12's V12 (731 HP), the Lamborghini Aventador's V12 (720 HP) and the Aston Martin One-77's V12 (750 HP).

CRider > Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire 07/23/2014 at 22:03

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cough twinturbos cough

JGrabowMSt > samssun 07/23/2014 at 22:36

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Considering the Hellcat is more powerful than the V10, I think that the suspension would have to be completely changed to support it. No sense in doing it if you can't put the power down.

It would be up there with the Cheetah in terms of performance, but you'd blow the doors off by the time it's really dialed in. I just think the Hellcat will have a huge amount of dynamics that can't really be accounted for without stuffing one in and driving the hell out of it. I think a weight balance shift will be the of the iceberg.

Mike > Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire 07/23/2014 at 23:42

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Those all have considerably less displacement than the Viper, though. The Viper's only managing 77hp/liter. Similarly, the base C7 Corvette only puts out 73hp/liter. I'm always a bit baffled by how poorly large-displacement American cars utilize their displacement, when you have things like a 991 Carrera S putting out 103hp/ton.

Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire > Mike 07/24/2014 at 00:06

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It's overhead cams vs pushrods. The pushrod motors have more displacement, but are physically smaller and lighter than OHC motors. You also have to look at the torque and power curves, where the larger displacement pushrod motors make much more torque at lower rpms. Realistically, the HP/displacement figures are very meaningless.

Mike > Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire 07/24/2014 at 00:09

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Consider me...educated. Still baffles me that they can't squeeze more power out of that V10, though.

Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire > Mike 07/24/2014 at 00:11

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They can, but other things need to also be beefed up and the gas mileage will go down.

Mike > Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire 07/24/2014 at 01:33

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The former I can understand, but if you care about gas mileage while driving a Viper, you're doing it wrong and should immediately hand your keys over to a driver who will actually use the car for proper hoonage. Like me.

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > JGrabowMSt 07/24/2014 at 05:10

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I reckon there's a good amount of capability left in the Viper's chassis to handle more power (there usually is with this level of supercar, otherwise they'd be undriveable), and if the gearbox is the same as the Viper then you should be able to offer up the whole kit and kaboodle up to the chassis.

You might need to modify the chassis for clearance depending on how far back the engine needs to be mounted to gear the gearstick in the right place, or if that's too much then just lengthen the gearstick.

Lastly, you would need to change the spring rates for the front as you're moving a big weight further backwards (although if the S/C V8 is heavier than the V10 it might offset somewhat), but that's just a matter of weighing it to find the distribution, getting softer springs and a set of adjustable dampers. It's not as if the Viper has some complex hydraulic systems tied into the suspension like the MP4-12C. It's all standard stuff.

All fairly standard stuff for someone who's done engine swaps before.

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > Chuck 2(O=[][]=O)2 07/24/2014 at 05:11

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Dry sump, or is it a width issue with chassis rails (the modern equivalent thereof)?

Chuck 2(O=[][]=O)2 > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires 07/24/2014 at 09:07

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The oil pan wasn't the problem. It's the motor's architecture. Plus, the viper has the cam in the block and I think the Hemis are SOHC, I think. And that might change something. I, honestly don't know for sure.

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > Chuck 2(O=[][]=O)2 07/24/2014 at 10:33

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Hmmm, the Hemis are pushrod, but it may be that the V10 has a narrower bank angle, or just a narrower block overall.